Initially I was excited for the change! now i am thinking it needs to be toned down!
i understand you want “Realism” and think vatsim is for PPL or Training pilots! I also want realism but i don’t want to hunt through a Virtual AIP for the right ctaf for JFK! I love A/FD charts but you gotta know Vatsim isn’t the real world. I pay 10 bucks for a month for navigraph along with 1000s spent on planes and scenery
What i think should happen is that 122.800 should be used for Class bravos airspace or airports with no ctaf (By no ctaf: Open 24/7 airfields)
I’m someone who is trying to get his glider license (about to solo)
I also really don’t like your “Anti Gamer” Philosophy when reality is MSFS xplane P3D is not a True simulator unless it’s used in a BATD or Level D sim. It’s a desktop game
It might take 15 seconds but that’s 15 seconds i could of did something a bit more…Enjoyable! 122.8 being for ctaf for the airport types i listed above is a easier solution for a lot of people
I agree completely with Malcolm.
CTAF is something that tends to be used more in the US at smaller airports. In the UK they use a different system and frequency, and other countries use something similar to Unicom.
Vatsim really need to clarify things here, as this is going to cause a lot of confusion. I feel this is a change for the sake of making a change.
As someone that has been around since the SATCO days over 23 years ago, I feel this may be a bad move. I know a lot of members will disagree with me, but look at the bigger picture and all the new members we have onboard since the launch of MSFS, a lot of them are still finding there feet, now we throw this at them.
I tend to agree with Malcolm; that’s 15 seconds wasted. It’s not adding realism, but is in fact creating unrealistic busywork. In reality, there will never be a CTAF in use at JFK, but if there were it would be right on the chart. No one in the airline world is looking up anything in an AFD (isn’t that called a chart supplement these days, anyway? ). Any company specific information will be in tailored pubs labeled 10-7s, but anything like a freq would be listed in Jepp charts. Since that’s what most serious simmers use (via Navigraph), if the freq isn’t in there… Then having to look it up in a non-real world source would just be -what’s the buzzword? - immersion breaking?
I’m pretty tempted to just keep using 122.8 on the rare times I’m on the network uncontrolled. As others have pointed out, no one uses CTAF correctly anyway, so it’s not as if freq congestion is a real problem. I’ve never heard a Vatsim CTAF come even close to what some real world freqs can sound like on a nice summer Saturday, where multiple nearby GA airports share a freq.
This seems a solution in search of a problem, honestly.
Ok guys,
A. IF THERE IS NO PUBLISHED CTAF FREQUENCY AT A CLASS B,C, or D THEN YOU USE THE TOWER FREQUENCY. I just flew in a class D in real life and tower was closed (rare occasion) and the A/FD, Airport Diagram, and ATIS said CTAF was the Tower frequency.
B. The busy work is not at all unrealistic… In fact, it is ultra realistic. Have you ever flown before in real life? (Polite question not trying to be rude) or flown solo? Cause there is a lot of “busywork” it’s all part of the flight sir.
Ok, I understand that! How about airports with mutiple frequencies for tower? If you read my post, you would of seen me clearly say (,Class B airspace, Mutiple tower freq) I flown in real life, Im getting my gliders license. This is also a VIDEO GAME! Not real life! Im advocating for this, it just feels like for airports with 2 or more frequencies should still be using 122.800.
Most people would not know if 118.75 or 119.9 Was the right frequency for CTAF
For airports with multiple published frequencies and no pre-established CTAF frequency, use the VATSIM AIP to find the correct frequency. For example, at KORD if you’re using the CTAF of 120.75, then if ORD Tower signs on, you’ll already be on the correct frequency. In the case of LAS, as you have in your screenshot, I looked it up in 7 seconds and figured out that the CTAF is 119.9.
Couldn’t care less about newbies. We cater to them too much anyway. In the dark ages you basically needed a Network+ certification to just get connected to the network. Now, a few button clicks and you’re on. Plus, at the end of the day, if they’re on the wrong freq because they don’t put in the effort, the only person losing out is them. They’ll learn.
Either way, as someone who started flying at an airport with a non-22.8 CTAF, I really appreciated the unique frequency. My commercial ride was rough because it was a nice day and the airport the examiner used for most of the approaches/landings part of the ride had a 22.8 CTAF. I was fighting not only the local traffic, but calls up and down the valley. On busy nights, it can get pretty bad on VATSIM too.
wow. way too difficult. reading a frequency from a chart. when will it end? actually following atc instructions? actually paying attention so you dont miss calls?
I would expect new members to have the easiest time with this transition, assuming it becomes permanent, because the Pilot Resource Center has already been updated with this new CTAF policy. It’s everyone that’s on the network now that presents the greater challenge for education and updating old habits.
And no one is against using a published CTAF frequency where there is one. Not a single person in this thread has argued against it.
The whole discussion turns around Class Bravo Airports. It doesn’t get more realistic a bit in moving the chatter on an invented CTAF frequency that you now have to look up outside of charts. Not a single bit.
as pointed out earlier. its not an invented frequency, its a tower freq. the general rule is the first tower frequency listed on the charts. it takes 5-10 seconds to verify. make it part of your preflight.
one obvious plus is if a tower controller logs on everyone will be on the correct frequency already.
Isn’t it all moot anyway? 8.33KHz spacing in Europe is a fact, and VATSIM’s impelementation is realistic. CTAF in the US is a fact, so VATSIM is bound to implement it. I rather facetiously commented earlier saying “global, schmobal” but that simply reflects the sometimes huge differences in aviation practice globally in RL. If that makes virtual flying less like a video game and more like real life, I’m delighted about that. If it’s too hard or not exciting enough for the gamers, that’s their problem, not VATSIM’s.
Let’s be intellectually honest with ourselves here. VATSIM is not and was not ever intended to be a place for casual gamers. The preamble to the Code of Conduct specifies that VATSIM’s aim is to simulate real world aviation. Despite this, we’ve had many VATSIMisms that are hold overs from years past.
A real world pilot should be able to come into the network and be successful with their real world knowledge and knowledge of a simulator/pilot client. There should be limited additional learning for them. If you can’t take 5 seconds to check a frequency on a chart, chart supplement, or AIP, I’m sorry to say but VATSIM is not for you. Please also note that we’re currently working on a possibility to lookup these major airport CTAFs from within your pilot client itself which should remove all excuses.
It is not the first frequency in my charts. Because my charts do not show just frequencies, but associate them with real life sectors (north runway in LA, specific runways in Denver etc). There is no such thing as “first” tower frequency in this logic.
Again, for an argument of something being closer to reality, we are inventing something that doesn’t exist real life and for bigger airports isn’t listed in the charts. How difficult is this to understand that this is no improvement at all?
And again no one is arguing against using the real life CTAF frequency where there is real life CTAF. Go ahead with that. Perfectly fine.
CTAF frequency in the charts => use it. No CTAF frequency => 122.8
Name one argument why we shouldn’t keep it that simple but invent a CTAF frequency that will randomly be one from multiple towers.
). Any company specific information will be in tailored pubs labeled 10-7s, but anything like a freq would be listed in Jepp charts. Since that’s what most serious simmers use (via Navigraph), if the freq isn’t in there… Then having to look it up in a non-real world source would just be -what’s the buzzword? - immersion breaking?