This evening I planned a flight EPWA ESSA
I contacted EPWEA delivery at 18h50 Z, he told me that my start up time would be 19h23 Z . Then at 19h 23 Z he told me that my time was pushed to 19h33 Z. Then at 19h33 Z he told me to contact ground for push and start,
I contacted ground who told me no I cannot start and recontact delivery my time would be 19h53.
After having waited almost one hour I had not received clearance !
I looked at EPWA CDM INTERNET site, I wasnot appearing in the list !!
There were 25 departing flights at EPWA and 45 arriving at ESSA
Which is far from being excessive on VATSIM
I got no explanation about this mess.
So totally digusted I disconnected from VATSIM
After flying 700 hours on VATSIM and IVAO , it is the 1st time that I am facing such a mess.
Does anyone have an explanation about such a disapointing adventure ?
Thanks for help.
You’ll probably get a better answer by submitting feedback to Polish vACC, but seeing the amount of traffic throughout EPWW today, it may well have been an overall MDI for the entire airport to manage workload on ACC.
Had you actually submitted a valid flightplan AND did you login to VATSIM with exactly the same callsign as pre-filed?
Yes I submitted my feedback to polish vacc
Yes delivery had my valid flightplan and identified me correctly, I just do not understand what they did with their CDM system and why there was this 1 hour delay and why delivery transferred me to ground after 45 minutes and why ground re transferred me back to delvery.
I know this approach is not accepted by some, but if I am faced with such lengthy delays I either depart another airport, OR disconnect depart and then reconnect once airborne.
I do not know which cdm system they use in Poland, but the one we use in Switzerland has sometimes jumping ghost times leading to people losing their slots and then we have to try to manually override the system which in a busy situation sadly can lead to a person dropping out of the sequence. Especially if the delivery controller is not to experienced (it can also happen to an experienced controller but less often). This issue even lead us to not using CDM at all and doing the flow control manually during our next big event.
And also try to remember that this is a completely volunteer run network where all the controllers try to do their best but stuff can go wrong as we are not trained to the real life standards.
Then you simply may have been unlucky. We are all humans and mistakes happen. Next time, if it stinks, fly from somewhere else or depart offline (but do NOT log back on right after takeoff, rather later in cruise and after you are sure that you won’t be interfering with other pilots.
Why is it surprising that EPWA was busy during Poland’s independence day event?
25 departures is not busy airport in Vatsim
I think that I was the victim of inexpérienced controller totaly mishandling this dammed CDM system. And not trying to understand my complains how much this was unfair to me. As I said I have 700 hours of flight with VATSIM and IVAO and it is the 1st time ever I am so much disappointed.
I really appreciate the work of ATC .
But this time this too much.
Nobody has priority over anyone else. It’s not about you. There are always delays during busy events.
But nobody had its departure time postponed 3 times reaching 1 hour waiting time .
Despite my claims my flight did not appeared in their CDM SYSTEM I checked it 3 times. It is a bad management of their system and no compassion about my requests.
that clearly goes against B12, and you can be sanctioned for it.
during my time connection I have fully respected all instructions
- a pilot is obligated to abide by the initiative. A pilot shall not circumvent these initiatives.
I have not circumvent these initiatives so I do not understand your threat of sanction
Here I am just complaining about not receiving start up clearance after one hour waiting, questioning the bad use of this CDM system due either to the controller or/and potential bugs.
I say again during 1 hour I checked the CDM EPWA on internet and my flight never appeared and my departure was postponed 3 times without appearing on the departure list !!
Some people here in this threads are confirming CDM does not work properly in some airports and are even advising me to circumvent the process by starting my flight disconnected and connect later in the flight !! which I never did.
so tell me why you threaten me please
the post by raul is not an answer to you, it is an answer to sean.
And @1058098 B12 only sanctions flow measures, so if you depart out of a busy area into a less busy area it is actually no issue to depart offline and reconnect online, the only issue is if you reconnect directly in a departure stream or if you disconnected to circumvent flow measures at your arrival airport.
incorrect. A ECDT/CTOT is not necessarily a flow measure, can simply be the airport being above capacity and traffic needing to be regulated. And it is not only applicable to arriving somewhere, like you are trying to pass, but also for departing. A pilot being given a delay on the ground for departure, disconnecting, taking off offline, and reconnecting again will be sanctioned under B12
If you choose to fly during a busy event you choose to accept delays. Or you could become a controller yourself and deal with impatient pilots who think they should have priority over everyone else.
Twice I’ve had 60 minute ground holds and couldn’t push back because the destination airport 2 hours away was congested (who else remembers the spectacular day EDDB opened?). Once I went with the flow and enjoyed watching the chaos, another time I thanked ATC for their efforts, disconnected and flew somewhere less busy. It’s not the end of the world.
Again: this was not the case with the OP. He was patient, was being told that his delayed increased again and again, although his flight was not even showing up on the CDM-list of that airport. Clearly something happened on the side of the ATC(system) and ATC did not accommodate this. Clearly, the OP was unhappy about this and I understand it.
No, you will not automatically/necessarily. You may get sanctioned if somebody takes objection and reports you. I sometimes do this: when the delay becomes overly ridiculous, I disconnect, depart offline and reconnect (many miles away from the ADEP) when I am 100% sure that there’s nobody near me. We do not have endless time to waste in the evenings, especially if some controllers seem to be on a power trip and hold up traffic on the ground.
Andreas thanks for your understanding.