Minimum age for Vatsim directed to be 16

General Discussion
1

See BOG Meeting Minutes 2025 Q2 4.03

Maybe it went generally unnoticed, maybe nobody really cares. Well, I do. And I say that I am unhappy with this decision. A decision which has been made - so it appears to me - merely „in passing“, as the topic was not even on the agenda.

It may be true that younger folk generally is getting dumber, but there are exceptions, and banning an entire age group is a step in the wrong direction and just the easy way out.

A young person can fly radio controlled airplanes (and I’m talking about real RC here, not toys) as early as six or seven, he can fly sailplanes at 14 - but Vatsim? No, he can’t do that. Because at Vatsim, we are mature, and he is per se not. VATSIM works with children and families as part of its activities. Where did I read this?

Basically every hobby and sports organization out there canvasses young people to win new blood, but not Vatsim, not anymore. Our hobby has been gentrified before, and this will happen again with this step. When a young person is interested in aviation, this interest starts early and needs to be fueled. At 16, many of them will be elswhere. And I am speaking out of personal experience, having raised a commercial pilot who started flying sailplanes at the age of 13 and was a flight instructor at 19, which would not have happened without his online simming experience from earliest age both as pilot and ATC.

Besides, I run the Vatsim Germany PMP (Pilot Mentoring Program), and we have quite a few requests from boys aged 13-15 who are interested and eager to learn. And now, you plan to exclude them from our hobby? Disappointing.

Why not raising the bar for Vatsim applicants 13-15? Why not telling them „see, we had some bad experience with people your age, and because of that our regular minimum age of entry has been set to 16. But if you are really interested, we have a procedure for you“. Which could for example be a personal assessment by a trainer.

I mean, what numbers are we talking about? How many of the 238 new members per day register within this age group? And even if it were too many to assess them in real time, there could be a waiting list (which is common in ATC training for years now). This would, by the way, clean out most if not all of those who initially gave the reason for this decision.

And I’m sure it could be done, technically. Those who lie about their age will continue to register, one way ot the other - you can’t possibly request (and check) personal IDs.

I am well aware that my post will change nothing, but I still don’t have to approve this decision. And this had to be said.

Boris

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In support, the ability for VATSIM to reach a much wider audience and provide development toward what we all love is immense. I tried probably 15yrs ago to get approval to develop a school based VATSIM program, but was told no. If we need strategic thinking, we can’t stop things.

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I agree Boris, I first learned to fly at the age of 8! I became an Air Cadet as soon as I could and ended up owning two real aircraft. Kids should start young.

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I appreciate the feedback and will ensure it is passed onto the Board of Directors. Not sure they will change their mind, but I agree, by the way. :slight_smile:

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Well definitely…As you told kids can start at young age and get inspired. But it always dosen’t work , every kid won’t be having the same maturity for flying on these network.

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(First time hearing about this age min)

Being a volunteer with 11-18 year olds (Assistant Scoutmaster, and also have taught the Aviation Merit Badge a couple times) and also got his Advanced Ground Instructor rating (upon the recommendation of a prior CFI), I can see both sides of the argument; Sadly (as a society) we equate maturity with age. There is a strong argument for that (generally), but everyone has to start somewhere.

Heck last month, I was a chaperone for the aviation merit badge at Yawgoog. The offsite trip took us down to KWST so the scouts could gain first hand knowledge of non-towered airfield operations as well doing a mock pre flight check.

I remember one of the scouts (probably about 14) asking about the differences between the low wings and the high wings (fuel consumption wise). Having ~250 of real life flight experience (taking a break for the time being), and having brought my flight bag (as a teaching aid, if requested to providing supporting material), I noted how a high wing versus low wing doesn’t affect fuel consumption itself, but rather the weight of the plane, as well as the properties of the air (differences from Standard Temp and Pressure). I pulled out my 172 POH, and showed her the tables I use. I could tell, from my explanation she was able to learn something new without feeling overwhelmed. Elements like this help encourage the next generation into aviation.

(To paraphrase the FOI/ fundamentals of instruction) People have a tangential reason to engage in something.

Instead of broadly prohibiting those under 16, perhaps a gateway program which allows those under 16 to work through modules (akin to a ground school program) to acclimate them to aviation communications.

Those who want to, will take the time to learn and apply.

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Question: do all new members have to provide proof of identity and age?

If not: who will stop 14 year olds to register and fly online? Unless they behave badly and immaturely, there will be no “background check” and they can continue their VATSIM journey.

Remember that rules have been made be circumvented and be smart so you don’t get caught. Same for this: don’t behave like a d*ck and you won’t get questioned about your age.

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Maybe stricter and harder theory exam to fly. And a check ride to ensure they know how to put it into practice.

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Frankly, ALL applicants should need to complete training, and meet some minimum standard or provide documented proof of their qualifications IRL. Ideally, it could be in the form of tiered process (Private VFR, Night Rating [so they can taxi in the dark], Commercial IFR, ATPL) make it impossible for a PPL VFR to file IFR until they are ready. I have heard pre-pubescnt voices that were spot-on in complex airpace and high traffic, and obvously adult voices who should have never left the hangar. It had exactly zero to do with age.

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Absolutely agree. We have guys 15 yo wanting to be ATC and they are very capable.

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If 16 and older is legal on the network, does this not present its own issue? isn’t it illegal to ask minors for their identity?

This entire rule would seem to be pointless anyway; in my experience, folks younger than 16 on the network are there primarily because they’re interested in aviation and want to learn, even though they may not always go about it in the best way. The problem children (read:trolls) definitely seem to be more late teens / twenties; today’s “man children”.

This seems knee-jerk, and likely to have more unfortunate consequences than useful ones.

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The legality of asking minors for proof of identity and age depends on the country and everyone has the right to deny providing proof. But in this case, I guess, VATSIM will then make use of its right to deny access to the network. After all, it is a private organization, there’s not right to participate.

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