Today I was fine on the net, and my communication with ATC was very good, However, I made a small mistake, I accidentally confused Woo with Taxi
I first apologized and he asked if he had given the authorization, he told me to stop flying on the net and now I don’t know if he can do anything against me if he sees me flying again from the vicinity of the airport he controls (SBRJ)
hi… i am Ary Santos ID 853392 and i was on ATC Tower Rio yesterday… Renan is not normal a rank but you wasnt following the rules… i approved your Flight Plane but not approved your taxi… had many others aircrafts on the ground and you could cause a accident… my sugestion… if you wanna flight online read and learn about the rules and procedures… i am user on VATSIM since 2002 and you can see my statistics about me… tanks and you will be always welcome in my ATC
Understood, I apologize for the error and for having disturbed the operations of the planes on the ground, I recognize that acting wrong in the face of the situation, and that it is unacceptable that someone confuses something so simple.
I recognize that I did not follow the procedures, not because I did not know about them, but because I confused them, I guarantee that it will not happen again and I hope that we can operate more in the future.
This was my statement of apology, I will be more responsible next time and won’t get confused again.
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The motto of VATSIM is AVIATE EDUCATE COMMUNICATE. The middle part is very important as not everyone has 20 years of experience. Honest mistakes happen.
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As in real life there are Controllers more flexible than others.
Firstly AVIATE. You should try to adhere to the instructions as closely as possible. I would recommed that if in any doubt ask for clarification of the instruction… i.e. “Say again last part of transmission” or “Say again taxi instructions” a PLEASE would also be nice.
Then EDUCATE. ATCO should consider that not ALL Virtual Pilots on the net are the same. For one, the experience in VATSIM and/or real life. So they should try to help you.
In my case, as a recommendation, I use PRIVATE MESSAGE to explain or try to solve the issue.
The problem is when there is a lot of traffic. If you are not confortable you`'d rather try on a less congested airport or at a least congested hour.
COMMUNICATE gently and RANT in PRIVATE.
FIR Montevideo - SUEO
Cheers.
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i am at your disposal if you are interested in learning the procedures for flying or every wednesday we have pilot training in SBYS from 9pm to 11pm BSB with José Olyntho instructor
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Still, unless someone is causing a REAL issue and maybe INTENTIONALLY, I personally do not think that it is good style to ask someone to disconnect for such a small thing. Obviously I did not witness the situation in question here, but as a vATCO I am very, very reluctant to tell someone to disconnect.
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No controller, regardless of how long they have been here can tell you to stop flying on the network.
@853392 some one with as much experence as your should know if you cannot resolve an issue between your selves, request a supervsor to assist.
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It is acceptable for a controller to tell a pilot when they have done something contrary to their instruction or clearance. If they don’t know they messed up, they won’t know NOT to do it again next time.
In the heat of the moment, sometimes that corrective transmission can have an “edge” of frustration or firmness to it. I’m definitely guilty of that at times. But one must try to stay on the side of issuing the corrective instruction, and explaining BRIEFLY what went wrong and why ONLY IF it can be done concisely and without sounding like a lecture. Often, that latter part is better carried out in a private message.
It is NOT acceptable for a controller to “rant” nor to tell someone they should disconnect.
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First I would like to get something clarified. What does
mean? I mean, I have around 1000 hours on the network and I have never heard a controller say “Woo”. So, is it some language barrier or?
I will also chime in and say that controllers should definitely try to create and embrace a welcome environment, even when the heat is on and most definitely for newcomers to the network.
I have also heard a controller on Oceanic tell a pilot to disconnect and come back when they have learned the proper procedures. I do not remember which controller it was (and If I did, I wouldn’t mention their name/ID here anyway).
In this case I would certainly expect the controller to tell the pilot to study on the area, preferably point them to sources they can learn from and THEN help them with the actual problem.
If, for example, the pilot didn’t know to file an oceanic clearance (I didn’t when I did my first flight over the pond) they should look at their plan and if it checks out, let them fly, knowing that they have to file a plan the next time.
In the example here, I do think the controller should simply have told the pilot in a welcoming manner, that the pilot should not taxi without instructions and if in doubt, always always always, ask again. Never tell someone to log off to study procedures.
This is my 2 cents.
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I agree with you 100 percent. I am a real world private pilot and I have made mistakes on VATSIM as well as in real world flying. Everyone has. I have heard many mistakes by controllers too. Some very important to safety but I could tell the controller was new and learning. When his mistake was pointed out by a pilot he thanked the pilot and all was well. We didn’t tell him he should not control anymore until he got more training and to disconnect. One more thing to think about is that some people on VATSIM donate money when they can to help the network. I have and will continue to donate but if someone went off the rails on me for a mistake. I can tell you the funds might not be there next time. We know it is supposed to be as real as possible but I also read a statement when I joined VATSIM that said “most of all have fun”!
A while back, the in vogue controller phrase was “say intentions,” and was used intentionally in a punative negative way. Example, “Cessna 1234, you appear to be heading northbound, say intentions.” It’s obvious the pilot has made a mistake, probably doesn’t know what the mistake was, and the “say intentions” was basically used to just put them on the spot, and make them look foolish. Meanwhile, you can hear the controllers conflict alarm blaring on and off when they key the mic, as they routinely violate spacing, and the computer snitch starts honking…LOL.
Fast forward to today, “say intentions” has been mostly dropped in favor of controllers telling pilots to disconnect.
I got a “say intentions” not that long ago. As I had filed a valid flight plan and was on course, I said “intention is to continue per flight plan”. The controller didn’t bother me again until I reached the FIR boundary.
“Say intentions” isn’t meant to make someone look foolish and it is used all the time to this day, both virtually and in the real world. It’s a succinct phrase meant to help the controller and pilot get back on the same page. In an industry, or hobby, where frequency management is paramount, do not mistake brevity on the controller’s part for judgement. Understand the controller’s role: separate traffic. That’s only possible if the controller knows what their traffic is doing.
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