I am requested to disconnect by controllers and SUP

General Discussion Pilot Talk
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Hi, I am a newbie to VATSIM, I have just had some flights with VATSIM. Before, I only flight by Add-on ATC such as BeyondATC, FSHud.

Until now, I have had very good feeling with fully support for newbie from many VATSIM ATC volunteers, SUP volunteers. When I speak slow, ATC fully support to speak slow to let me catch content, or even ATC sent me IFR clearance message. Some SUP when seeing me did wrong things, they sent message to me and correct me clearly.
Thank you all for spending your time to create and maintain this awesome community.

However, last night, it was the first time I feel unclear about my wrong.

I saw YSSY ATC available by vatsim-radar map. Then I flew from YSBK (no controller) to YSSY, but I was been requested to disconnect while flying into YSSY.
When I was on YSSY Approach ATC zone, I contacted to YSSY Approach ATC and communicated as following: “[YSSY Approach], [My call sign], [Flight level], [My position relative to a fix], announce on frequency”.

After that, I was requested to disconnect out of VATSIM. I thought I had made ATC mistake that I said “emergency”, so I immediately corrected that “announce on frequency, not emergency”. But I was requested to disconnect out of VATSIM again.

I thought I did something wrong, but I didn’t understand what I did wrong, then I immediately flew out of YSSY zone and I asked SUP for help.

I was announced by SUP that there’s event, I didn’t follow ATC instruction, I should not flight to YSSY with VATSIM last night.

Then I asked help from SUP to let me know what I did wrong to prevent my mistake next time. But I was not received clear clarification by SUP about my mistake, my wrong.

Does VATSIM prohibit newbie to fly into event zones? Or what did I do wrong when communicate with ATC?

Thank you for your help.

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No-one is banned anywhere, but during high levels of activity it is expected that you are able to communicate, aviation, and have a good level of situational awareness. I am not saying that is you, as I don’t have any knowledge other than what you have posted.
It is very much like a learner driver whilst legal to drive in peak hour with massive traffic etc, most will work up to the full competency.
Monday nights in Australia are there weekly event, with a lot of traffic and ATC.
VATPAC offers ‘newbie’ events for those that want to build their skill and knowledge. They are recommended and a good way to ramp up.
Sorry that you were asked to disconnect, and I hope that the SUP had fair reason for that request. I suspect that perhaps the work load was significant, and ATC did not have an effective nor efficient way to handle your situation without impacting others.

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where did you ever get that “announce on frequency” from? that is no phraseology to be used

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Thank you for your reply. I take that from BeyondATC add-on program, when reaching to Approach zone, I need to inform to Approach ATC.

In VATSIM, should I not use that?

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Thank you for your feedback. Hope that I will learn from your guidance.

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see this is the danger of using AI sometimes.
no, not on vatsim, not anywhere. Everything between brackets was correct though

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Many thanks for your feedback. I will try to learn more and more.

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A couple of things here.

First, do not mix AI ATC with human ATC. A lot of what BeyondATC is quite simply wrong. Every country has different phraseology and the addon can’t be expected to know about this.

Probably unintentionally, you flew into the weekly Monday Milk Run which is the busiest Australian event of the week. The controllers are extremely busy during this event, especially in Sydney.

You’re not prohibited from flying into event airspace but you need to do it the right way. You are required to remain outside controlled airspace (“OCTA”) and report inbound at one of the designated reporting points.

If you were flying VFR, look at the Visual Terminal Chart for Sydney. You should file a flight plan so the controllers know what you intend to do. You need remain outside/below the Class C airspace until given clearance to enter. You report inbound at one of the VFR reporting points (purple/white diamond).

If 16L/R were active, you could fly VFR route (dotted purple line) from Bankstown to Hornsby and report there. In this case you could file the flight plan as YSBK PRT PENH HSY YSSY with your altitude below 2000 ft (below Class C airspace). If 35L/R were in use, you could alternatively fly south and report at Helensburgh.

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You would report inbound as “Sydney Approach, [callsign], [aircraft type], [location], [altitude] inbound with [YSSY ATIS identifier]”. Approach would give you a squawk code. Once you are “identified” you would be told something like “cleared to enter the control zone, not above [altitude], join final for [runway], expect visual approach”. Note if you are VFR you can’t be given an ILS or other instrument approach. Also if you’re VFR you can only report your position relative to VFR waypoints, not fixed navigation aids (e.g. VOR/DME) or IFR waypoints.

If you were flying IFR you must file an IFR flight plan and report to Approach before taking off from Bankstown (even though Bankstown itself is uncontrolled outside tower hours). You would say something like “Sydney Approach, [callsign], [aircraft type] at Bankstown, IFR for Sydney”. You would be given a squawk code, probably given the radar SID and once airborne you would be given instructions for the approach.

tl;dr you can fly into busy airspace during an event provided you do it the right way. This does happen sometimes on Mondays, usually with helicopters but sometimes other aircraft.

And now a shameless plug wearing my VATPAC Events Coordinator hat, keep an eye out for Newbie Night. The next one is coming up in October between Adelaide and Melbourne. Newbie Night is aimed at jets and larger turboprops but most other aircraft can be used.

Also if you enjoy flying light aircraft, you are welcome to join VFR Ops every Friday and Sunday at 0900z. This will help get you used to Australian phraseology and flying between controlled and uncontrolled airspace. Check the VATPAC calendar: https://forums.vatpac.org/calendar/ (This is an open invitation for anyone from anywhere in the world who wants to explore some spectacular Australian scenery and experience some slightly different VFR procedures.)

You would be most welcome to join the VATPAC Discord if you’d like to learn more about specific procedures in more detail. Visit https://community.vatsim.net/ and scroll down to VATPAC.

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Your help is very clear guidance and made me understand what I did wrong. I flew A320 IFR at that night. I might made trouble for ATC at that busy event night because entering OCTA without report with Sydney Approach ATC about my IFR for Sydney before I took off from Bankstown. Now I understood well. Many thanks for your hard job and contribution.

Next time, I will prevent this my mistaking and following your guidance hint.

I learned a lot of from your guidance. Thank you so much again.

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Bankstown is a relatively small general aviation airport and can’t handle an A320. :slight_smile:

If you want to practice short IFR flights in an A320, I’d suggest something like Melbourne-Launceston which you can quite realistically fly as Jetstar. This will help you get used to procedures before you tackle the much more complex Sydney airspace. Use Simbrief to generate a flight plan and if there is ATC online inform them you are new to VATSIM.

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Thank you for your additional guidance. I am not real pilot, even I didn’t know Bankstown can’t park and handle A320.
Next time, I will flight from Melbourne-Launceston to practice more.

It’s my pleasure to be taught by experienced member as you. I had several flight last night, and be vector approach until landing, and taxi to gate by only 1 ATC approach, it is surprised how talent ATC can do many multiple tasks even there’s many flight at the same time, he almost communicated continuously without resting time.

VATSIM is awesome, feeling is very different real much more than add-on software simulating ATC that I used before.

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Just a quick note from someone who use mostly Vatsim, and also i have BeyondATC.

Announce on frequency in BeyondATC is just the naming of the action you do, not to be used as an actual phrase during contact, you are correct with the following ( “[YSSY Approach], [My call sign], [Flight level], [My position relative to a fix] ) but no need to say announce on frequency.

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That’s not actually correct. If you’re flying an IFR flight into Sydney by the time you contact Approach you will have already been cleared on a STAR, normally down to an altitude but occasionally a low FL. What you would say after CTR instructs you to “contact Sydney Approach” is “Sydney Approach, [callsign] descending to [last cleared FL/altitude] with [ATIS identifier]”. If you’ve already levelled off instead of “descending to” you say “level at”.

This is why you should not mix automated ATC software with flying online. Every country/region has different phraseology and the software doesn’t know this. Every country/region has a different transition between altitudes and flight levels, in some cases the transition varies between airport and is set by ATC so can vary on different days.

This is not to discourage anyone flying on VATSIM. It can be scary at first and there is a lot to learn, but learning is part of the fun. The controllers are patient with newbies. It’s just not a good idea to make your first VATSIM flight into a very busy event. :slight_smile:

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Thank you for your support always. I learned from your post about specified phraseology for Sydney approach contact.

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The next Newbie Night has been announced.