I’m somewhat new to Vatsim. I have 400 sim hours logged but only 200 or so are on Vatsim. I’m not a pro pilot and I learned what I know the hard way.
Is it appropriate to perform some checklist steps while holding short of a runway for takeoff? I don’t mean if you are lined up, I’m suggesting just pausing a minute for crosscheck items and running a final takeoff checklist.
It’s been my experience that the gamer-kiddies and pro pilots are the least professional out there. I understand the former but not the latter. It seems that it’s much worse when there is no ATC online; then it’s like the wild west.
My question is somewhat of a check on my understanding of the etiquette in this case. I’ve experienced a lot of bad behavior when taking less than a minute to finalize a checklist while holding short prior to take off. I want to be sure that I’m not doing something wrong; I’m not just complaining.
Yes! You are the PIC! You are ready when you are ready. When ATC tells you to line up, but you are not ready yet, you tell them and let them know how much time you expect you need, so they can assess the situation.
Thank you. ATC wasn’t the problem. I was stopped at a runway’s entry hold for less than a minute and some knucklehead drove around me. I can’t imagine he/she/them had to be somewhere in a hurry. ATC Gnd was active but had cleared me to change freq. I thought maybe that’s how it is in the wild southwest (KDEN)
Ok, then this was just a bloody idiot. Ignore them, do your thing and take it as an example of how not to behave. The other pilot could simply have asked you how much time you needed.
Both yes and no.
As Andreas said, you are the PIC, and if you need to run certain checks before you are ready, then so be it.
That said, unless previously notified, controllers will generally assume that pilots won’t be needing a long time to get going, and some aerodromes may even have a published procedure that any aircraft at the holding point is assumed and expected to be ready for immediate departure.
As such, if you know you will need to hold for a moment to complete your before take-off checklist, please ask ATC to assign you (or when no ATC is around, find yourself) a location where you can do that without inconveniencing others as much as possible.
During events as well, even if it’s not in the published procedures, it’s good airmanship to assume that rule is in effect, because if it can be avoided, you don’t want to be that guy who holds up the departure flow longer than necessary by blocking the (only) holding point to the active runway, and cascade delays for everyone coming behind you.
Let’s say it this way: with more routine and experience, one will be able to perform most briefings and checklists while on the way to the runway holding point. If you need to run a normal checklist at the holding point, because there was no way of doing so during taxi, then do it, but try to be quick. 30 seconds should be more than sufficient e.g. for a taxi checklist. Also, when instructed to enter a runway to line up or for takeoff right away, don’t worry about switching on all the lights etc. and run the line up checklist while stationary at the holding point and only start moving when done so. Obviously, you want to do this expeditiously to not hold up traffic.
Don’t worry, you will get a good feeling for it at some point.
All the advice provided here is great. Since we’re talking about the US, I do want to point out a section from the FAA’s Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM):
4.3.14b. The tower controller will consider that pilots of turbine-powered aircraft are ready for takeoff when they reach the runway or warm-up block unless advised otherwise.
While we typically fly single pilot ops on the network, ATC still follows the above assumption unless otherwise advised. If you need more time, just advise ATC (when they’re on). Something as simple as “We’ll need a minute at the end” works.
Thanks Andreas, Mathias, and Nick
Your input is greatly appreciated. I’ll reorganize my list to finalize it before push and start. I’m flying an ERJ from X-crafts and it’s all over the taxiway when moving to the runway. I don’t have rudder pedals but I don’t think that’s the issue. The “ERJ Family” was sold as being compatible for XP12 with some “minor” issues, but it’s buggy to say the best. I don’t know if that’s the reason for its wanderlust but if I’m not constantly steering and breaking I’d be in a heap of trouble.That’s why I don’t complete the list while taxiing.
I think we can assume that it is going to be the same in many places in the world, especially at busy airports. Both here at VATSIM and also IRL. Sometimes we have to tell them that we will need another minute (cabin not ready, re-briefing not completed etc.). Usually ATC will then tell us to line up and wait and report when ready.
So lots of good advice here.
Just wanted to say that you should complete most of the checklists at the gate/parking. Very few checklist items before or during taxi. Even less items before takeoff. Like lights, transponder, check trim & flap setting, AP prepared check, check recall/alarm panel. Takes max 10 seconds to complete.
There is a difference flying a jet or a turboprop compared to a piston plane.
A piston plane requires an enging run-up check before departure which takes approx 1-3 minutes depending on number of engines and number of checklist items. For DC-6 5-6 minutes.
Some airports have designated run-up areas but mostly these piston engine planes dont require a full length runway so ATC can tell them to taxi to a adjacent holding point where they can perform their run-up checks.
I fly piston planes all the time on Vatsim and as a controller myself, i understand that its hard to remember all aircraft codes so when i fly a Cessna 172, 182, Piper Cub , Comanche, Arher, Beech Baron, Cessna 414, DC-6 etc… I tell ATC when i ask for taxi that i can depart from intersection F and i will need a few minutes for run-up checks before departure.
Normally i get to taxi to F and told to report when ready.
Taxiing single pilot can need attention. Rushing checklists or departure preparation is not helping. As sim pilots we switch planes and checklists might leave out different items and we need to fill the gaps by a little mental preparation. Also there could be a problem popping up last minute.
It is more embarrassing if pilots encounter control problems during departure or forget to sequence their RNAV for an intersection departure or forget to activate Mode C or… It has happened to me.
When I feel the TWR is expecting me to move quickly but I am not ready I’ll give a “need a minute” before entering the runway. Or in case of the “Cleared immediate takeoff” an “unable”. So there’s time to cancel line-up and maybe take somebody from another intersection first. Otherwise half a minute or so should be expected in our environment by aircraft that have not stood still before.
Btw. that FAA rule is funny. Nice that the tower controller considers that. But it is superseded by the pilot being ready to go. Does that rule want to imply that I shall taxi slower or stop somewhere when I need more time?
…or proactively report “will be ready in x minutes only” while approaching the holding point. It’s not always black&white, but the most important thing is to get the message across, to know or at least estimate what your counterpart expects from you. Hence, to be a good pilot/controller, a looooooot of experience and learning/training is essential.
Thanks everyone for your considered advice. I’m really glad I posted this question. I learn several new things everyday and much from this topic alone.
I’ve been on Vatsim for approx 200hrs but not always under the watchful eye of an ATC. Sometimes I’m “that guy” and other times I’m shaking my head listening to “that guy.” I’m finding that the former comes less frequently now but it still comes; just this morning an ATC in Denver had to ask for a readback several times before I realized what he wanted.
I’m still a bit slow with certain tasks. My wife, I call her an HTC (Home traffic Controller) will attest to that. It always amazes me how I lived so long with so many successes without her direction; but I digress.
I will continue trying hard to improve and I thank you for the knowledge from hard-earned experience that you’ve shared.
Yes, but the before takeoff checklist is very short for GA aircraft, and not very long -maybe around six items-for airliners (unless you’re simulating an engine runup for winter ops). Nearly all the items should have been done before or during taxi; you’re just referring to the list to check.
When you you’re stopped at the hold short line at the runway, tell the tower how long you need before you’re ready.
