[19th October 2024] Cross The Pond Eastbound - Discussion Thread

Cross The Pond - Eastbound 2024

Welcome to the discussion thread for CTP Eastbound 2024!

We are pleased to return for another Cross the Pond, this time following the fun westbound on October 19th, 2024.

Cross The Pond is the largest and longest-running event on VATSIM (over 21 years). The event is biannual flying between the two sides of the Atlantic Ocean - Westbound in the spring and Eastbound in the autumn. Hundreds of pilots light up the virtual skies, and dozens of controllers burn both ends of the candle to provide professional ATC service over the Ocean and the Continents.

Our teams of volunteers are already working in the background for this next edition, so we will be posting updates soon!

To keep in touch with news regarding the event, you can follow us on our social media and look for the hashtag #CTP24E
Twitter: https://twitter.com/vatsimctp
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/vatsimctp/

We also have a dedicated discord server, which is going to get busier as we approach show-day. To join us, head over to ctp.vatsim.net and follow the instructions on your screen.

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Cross The Pond is happy to announce our departure and arrival fields for 2024 Eastbound!

Departing:
CYHZ - Halifax Stanfield Intl
CYWG - Winipeg Richardson International Airport
CYYZ - Toronto PPearson Intl
KBOS - Boston Logan Intl
KEWR - Newark Liberty International Airprot
KMCO - Orlando International Airport
SKBO - El Dorado Inernational BogotĂĄ
TBPB - Grantley Adams International Airport
TNCC - Curaçao International
TNCM - Princess Juliana

Arriving:
EDDM - Munich
EGLL - London Heathrow
EHAM - Amsterdam Airport Schiphol
EKCH - Copenhagen Kastrup
GMMN - Mohammed V International Airport
GOBD - Blaise Diagne Intl
LEBL - El Prat International Airport
LFPG - Paris Charles De Gaulle
LOWW - Vienna
LPPT - Lisbon Airport

You can also join the discussion on Twitter/X and Facebook @vatsimctp

*Note: please be aware that not every possible city pair between all the airports above may be presented for the event.

Here are all the possible flights

ICAO

  1. CYHZ-EDDM
  2. CYHZ-EGLL
  3. CYHZ-EHAM
  4. CYHZ-EKCH
  5. CYHZ-GMMN
  6. CYHZ-GOBD
  7. CYHZ-LEBL
  8. CYHZ-LFPG
  9. CYHZ-LOWW
  10. CYHZ-LPPT
  11. CYWG-EDDM
  12. CYWG-EGLL
  13. CYWG-EHAM
  14. CYWG-EKCH
  15. CYWG-GMMN
  16. CYWG-GOBD
  17. CYWG-LEBL
  18. CYWG-LFPG
  19. CYWG-LOWW
  20. CYWG-LPPT
  21. CYYZ-EDDM
  22. CYYZ-EGLL
  23. CYYZ-EHAM
  24. CYYZ-EKCH
  25. CYYZ-GMMN
  26. CYYZ-GOBD
  27. CYYZ-LEBL
  28. CYYZ-LFPG
  29. CYYZ-LOWW
  30. CYYZ-LPPT
  31. KBOS-EDDM
  32. KBOS-EGLL
  33. KBOS-EHAM
  34. KBOS-EKCH
  35. KBOS-GMMN
  36. KBOS-GOBD
  37. KBOS-LEBL
  38. KBOS-LFPG
  39. KBOS-LOWW
  40. KBOS-LPPT
  41. KEWR-EDDM
  42. KEWR-EGLL
  43. KEWR-EHAM
  44. KEWR-EKCH
  45. KEWR-GMMN
  46. KEWR-GOBD
  47. KEWR-LEBL
  48. KEWR-LFPG
  49. KEWR-LOWW
  50. KEWR-LPPT
  51. KMCO-EDDM
  52. KMCO-EGLL
  53. KMCO-EHAM
  54. KMCO-EKCH
  55. KMCO-GMMN
  56. KMCO-GOBD
  57. KMCO-LEBL
  58. KMCO-LFPG
  59. KMCO-LOWW
  60. KMCO-LPPT
  61. SKBO-EDDM
  62. SKBO-EGLL
  63. SKBO-EHAM
  64. SKBO-EKCH
  65. SKBO-GMMN
  66. SKBO-GOBD
  67. SKBO-LEBL
  68. SKBO-LFPG
  69. SKBO-LOWW
  70. SKBO-LPPT
  71. TBPB-EDDM
  72. TBPB-EGLL
  73. TBPB-EHAM
  74. TBPB-EKCH
  75. TBPB-GMMN
  76. TBPB-GOBD
  77. TBPB-LEBL
  78. TBPB-LFPG
  79. TBPB-LOWW
  80. TBPB-LPPT
  81. TNCC-EDDM
  82. TNCC-EGLL
  83. TNCC-EHAM
  84. TNCC-EKCH
  85. TNCC-GMMN
  86. TNCC-GOBD
  87. TNCC-LEBL
  88. TNCC-LFPG
  89. TNCC-LOWW
  90. TNCC-LPPT
  91. TNCM-EDDM
  92. TNCM-EGLL
  93. TNCM-EHAM
  94. TNCM-EKCH
  95. TNCM-GMMN
  96. TNCM-GOBD
  97. TNCM-LEBL
  98. TNCM-LFPG
  99. TNCM-LOWW
  100. TNCM-LPPT

IATA

  1. YHZ-MUC
  2. YHZ-LHR
  3. YHZ-AMS
  4. YHZ-CPH
  5. YHZ-CMN
  6. YHZ-DSS
  7. YHZ-BCN
  8. YHZ-CDG
  9. YHZ-VIE
  10. YHZ-LIS
  11. YWG-MUC
  12. YWG-LHR
  13. YWG-AMS
  14. YWG-CPH
  15. YWG-CMN
  16. YWG-DSS
  17. YWG-BCN
  18. YWG-CDG
  19. YWG-VIE
  20. YWG-LIS
  21. YYZ-MUC
  22. YYZ-LHR
  23. YYZ-AMS
  24. YYZ-CPH
  25. YYZ-CMN
  26. YYZ-DSS
  27. YYZ-BCN
  28. YYZ-CDG
  29. YYZ-VIE
  30. YYZ-LIS
  31. BOS-MUC
  32. BOS-LHR
  33. BOS-AMS
  34. BOS-CPH
  35. BOS-CMN
  36. BOS-DSS
  37. BOS-BCN
  38. BOS-CDG
  39. BOS-VIE
  40. BOS-LIS
  41. EWR-MUC
  42. EWR-LHR
  43. EWR-AMS
  44. EWR-CPH
  45. EWR-CMN
  46. EWR-DSS
  47. EWR-BCN
  48. EWR-CDG
  49. EWR-VIE
  50. EWR-LIS
  51. MCO-MUC
  52. MCO-LHR
  53. MCO-AMS
  54. MCO-CPH
  55. MCO-CMN
  56. MCO-DSS
  57. MCO-BCN
  58. MCO-CDG
  59. MCO-VIE
  60. MCO-LIS
  61. BOG-MUC
  62. BOG-LHR
  63. BOG-AMS
  64. BOG-CPH
  65. BOG-CMN
  66. BOG-DSS
  67. BOG-BCN
  68. BOG-CDG
  69. BOG-VIE
  70. BOG-LIS
  71. BGI-MUC
  72. BGI-LHR
  73. BGI-AMS
  74. BGI-CPH
  75. BGI-CMN
  76. BGI-DSS
  77. BGI-BCN
  78. BGI-CDG
  79. BGI-VIE
  80. BGI-LIS
  81. CUR-MUC
  82. CUR-LHR
  83. CUR-AMS
  84. CUR-CPH
  85. CUR-CMN
  86. CUR-DSS
  87. CUR-BCN
  88. CUR-CDG
  89. CUR-VIE
  90. CUR-LIS
  91. SXM-MUC
  92. SXM-LHR
  93. SXM-AMS
  94. SXM-CPH
  95. SXM-CMN
  96. SXM-DSS
  97. SXM-BCN
  98. SXM-CDG
  99. SXM-VIE
  100. SXM-LIS

Decide which flight you want to take so you can book it as quickly as possible! You’re welcome.

Please be careful with the information you share. Not all the city pairs you have listed will be possible on the CTP

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What Raul said above ^

Of the 100 possible, around 60 (+/-) will be available.

Pilots are now allowed to join our slot lottery!

Demand for participation in CTP outweighs the available capacity of the controllers and airspace. As a result, we chose to limit the number of participants using a slot system.

Only pilots with a slot are able to participate in the event. In order to distribute the slots to pilots we complete the following steps:

  • Pilots register their interest (available until 03OCT24)
  • Everyone who enters the lottery will get a personalised booking time
  • Pilots login after their allocated time and pick a time slot and city pair (being earlier in the lottery gives more chance for the route you want) (available 07OCT24 through 13OCT24)
  • Pilots who have booked via the above MUST return to the CTP website and confirm their bookings between 13OCT24 1400z and 16OCT24 2359z. If you do not do this, you WILL LOSE YOUR SLOT.
  • After everyone has had some time to select their route, the remaining slots are released to all members (13OCT24, 2000z). If you click the “Book” button at this time, you do NOT need to confirm your slot.

Several factors affect the outcome of the lottery, the most significant of which is your historical interaction with this event. If you have no-showed during a previous event when you held a booking, you will have slightly less chance of getting a slot now. If you applied but did not get a slot last year, you will have a slightly higher chance of getting a slot now.

As in previous events, you will have to return to the website in the week leading up to the event to reconfirm your intention to fly and to provide important information such as your callsign, maximum assignable flight level and so on.

You may now register to be included in the lottery at ctp.vatsim.net.

If you want to keep up to date with CTP, don’t forget to join our Discord server at ctp.vatsim.net/discord.

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This Event’s system in Detail

The lottery will run much the same as previous - that being that everyone will go into the lottery and get randomised into an order. This order will be affected primarily by chance, however, there will be weighting for the following:

  • No shows - negative weighting if you no-showed a slot you had in the previous event. This does not include people who dropped a slot they were allocated.
  • Previous slot allocations - if you got a slot in the last lottery, you have a slightly negative weighting. Likewise, if you didn’t, you have a slight positive weighting
  • Sequential events - if you have multiple sequential unsuccessful events, you get more of a positive weighting

With all of those factors taken into account, people will be ranked from 1 to N (N being the total number of people who express interest). A reminder that the main factor is chance, and therefore if you have negative weighting, you aren’t guaranteed to not have a later booking time. Likewise, with a positive weighting, you aren’t guaranteed an early one.

Each person is then given a time that they can book from and there is at least 1 minute between each person in the lottery, therefore a maximum of 5 people get in every 5 minutes. We try to base the booking times so that members from around the globe would be able to log in near to them without much hassle. The point of this is that if you can’t exactly make whatever time you’re given, you are likely to be able to log on soon after and still get a choice of slots, in contrast to the classic ‘free for all’ system where being 15 minutes late meant no slot at all.

We’re not sure how popular all the slots will be, therefore it’s perfectly possible that we’ll run out of slots before the last booking times and therefore people towards the end of the lottery may not have any slots left to choose from. Equally, it’s perfectly possible that some slots and times that are less popular will still be available. People with slots can drop them at any time, so slots will always pop up.

Everyone will then have to return to the site between 13OCT24 and 16OCT24 (0000-2359 UTC) to confirm they are flying and ensure they’ve filled in all the details. If you don’t do this, your slot will become available to anyone else to take.

Regardless of what’s left, anything not taken will be available on 13OCT24. Anyone at this point can take a slot from what’s left. Anything dropped will be available to be booked.

======================================================================

Pilot Briefing Seminar

Something that is not new, but regardless, not talked enough about is the Pilot Briefing Seminar. Our friends from the Flight Simulation Association and other known members of the community are running a seminar to help new and experienced pilots prepare for the event and bring them up to speed with anything new from oceanic procedures, to departing and arriving in the respective continents (with all the differences between FAA, EASA and other airspace).

For CTP 24 Eastbound, the seminar will take place on 16OCT24 at 2100z. We will be posting a link you can subscribe to to get a reminder and not forget it closer to the briefing date.

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What timeframe should I clear with the significant other?
AKA what is the slotrange for departure for BOS/EWR/MCO

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All, as the planning process progresses, we have spotted an imbalance in capacity on the two sides of the ocean. To manage this and to provide as many slots as we can, we have added KBDL, Bradley International, to the airport selection.

It is still a bit early to have an exact answer, but in about two weeks time, we could provide one.

Great!! I can’t wait for this event. It is going to be my first time doing the Cross the Pond event!!!

With the deadline for expressing interest passing yesterday, what date will pilots be notified that they received a booking slot?

Hi Nick

I have an Expression of Interest registered &, as per the Discord announcement last night (UK), I have not received an email as yet. Should I be worried? Kind Regards David

This isn’t going to help, but at least it’s news. I got my invitation last night 4/10. I wish you luck with yours.

So based on a few quick calculations, I’ve come up with the following: there are a total of 1070 slots available, obviously much less than the 1941 people who have expressed interest. Based on the times quoted in Discord, bookings are opened as follows:

  • 07-10-2024 16:44Z to 21:00Z: 256 slots
  • 08-10-2024 14:00Z to 21:00Z: 420 slots
  • 09-10-2024 14:00Z to 21:00Z: 420 slots
  • 10-10-2024 14:00Z to 21:00Z: 420 slots
  • 11-10-2024 14:00Z to 21:00Z: 420 slots

Assuming people book an available slot on the day they are able to, the last slot will be booked at 20:34Z on the 9th.

So in other words, anyone who has a booking time after the 9th, there’s a fairly high possibility that there aren’t going to be any slots left. Having been a regular participant in CTP for quite a while, I’m personally a bit disappointed that my time is late on the 10th. I get that it’s random and I completely understand that there’s much more interest than availability, and that’s par for the course.

However, I feel that it would be more fair to limit the number of participants that get the chance to book in the first place. With 1070 slots and almost double the expressions of interest, instead of getting an email that I can theoretically book a slot at a certain time, I would have preferred to get a notification that my spot on the list was 1402 of 1070 openings and unfortunately I won’t get a pick of a slot.

My suggestion for a booking system with the lottery would be to split the entries into equal groups per day (at random) with each day having the same number of slots per route available and opening up the bookings per grouping.

For example:
There are 4 days to book 1070 slots, so there are then ~268 slots per day. The 1941 entrants are randomly split into groups of about 486, with each group having a specific day to book. Each route combination is likewise allocated proportionally to each group, so for say KEWR-EHAM, there are 8 or 9 slots available per group. To make the availability even more fair, you could even split each day’s group into two sub groups.

I hope I’m making a bit of sense. My personal opinion is that the way the booking system is set up now gives people the impression that it’s possible to book a slot when in reality I’d be surprised if there are more than a handful left after the 9th.

If you go to https://ctp.vatsim.net/bookings, there should be a message with your time to book.

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Public bookings are now open!

So a few updates - as the slots are now freely available, trading is also an option on the CTP website.

A reminder to those who have booked a slot before this message - you MUST confirm it by 16OCT or you’ll lose it.

I’m starting to get miffed about this CTP setup. For the last 3 CTP’s, my slot opened last day, last day and last day. So much for the “lottery” system.

This is the entire point of the lottery. As said above, the main factor is, even after the positive and negative weighings… luck. You either “win” or “loose”. And by that, the extremes may be “win” meaning being on day one and “loose” meaning being on the last day. How many times have you won the jackpot? I could, of course venture into probability theory, but I am sure that if you do not know it already, there are plenty of good materials online on that field of mathematics.

Nobody has promised that once every 3 events you will be the first one to book. As much as people would like to point a finger at somebody and put blame or express anger, we, as the planning team, or anybody else for that matter, have no personal input into how high anyone scores on the lottery list.

Given there were always 5 days, the probability of you getting to choose a slot on the last day 3 times is (1/5)^3 or 1/125 or below 1 percent. So basically you have won the (reverse) jackpot. Sorry.

Pilots, we are now at the start of CTP week. We are preparing for the event and we hope you are too. Pilot briefs should be available on the CTP website, and our friends will be once again helping newer and experienced members preparing for the event with a pilot webinar on everything you need to know prior to Cross The Pond. Mark the date and save the link for 16OCT@2100z