This right here is the TRUTH. Someone asked about CTAF on unicom the other day and how to know what Tower frequency to use when flying to, say, a class B airport with multiple towers, so I posted the link to the VATSIM AIP website and another pilot on the network seriously walloped me for doing that because I didn’t go to DMs. I never heard from a Sup because I’m sure they understood that it was good information for anyone else in that area that was unsure about CTAF use, but an automated message that tells the CTAF freq would help out a lot of pilots that don’t pay attention to notices and bulletins (most of the time it’s young kids). Thanks.
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You did the right thing by posting the link. I’ve done the same.
I agree it would be useful if Auto ATC sent a reminder about CTAF to any connection in the relevant FIRs, possibly advising the frequency of the original and destination CTAF based on a filed flight plan.
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Sadly, that may be true. The response from @1035677 to my initial post in this thread, where I pointed an accusing figure at the BoG for enrolling huge numbers of new members in the wake of Vatsim’s agreed endorsement by Microsoft, which led ultimately to the explosion in membership to which he referred, was probably mostly made up of young folks who, already steeped in amazing action-packed multiplayer adventure games, were hoping for more excitement from Vatsim, without having to invest in the vastly complex steep learning curve required. But this is not Fortnite.
Maybe there are demographic data which refute that claim, but these are not available to members.
Don also referred to the huge amount of activity which is designed to repair that damage, and much is being done within the Pilot Training Department to that end. I totally agree with him that this is both required and welcome, and that it will surely take time. From my own experiences within the PTD, there seems to be a reluctance within the ranks to acknowledge the fact that really helpful, useful support materials which actually move members towards an understanding of Vatsim and all its associated complexities, simply cannot be developed overnight. So any request for “a quick page on a topic” to be included in a course, simply does not do the job.
It was that blindness which initially led to the development of the existing new member orientation course, from which the PTD, under Simon Kelsey’s educationally-inspired leadership, is now working hard to overcome. Don has already acknowledged that effort.
But the legacy remains. Those new members who may have joined hoping for an adrenaline rush are probably still with us, perhaps trying to re-shape the network to suit their needs, perhaps as a side effect of, or collateral damage from, the social media. Progress dictates that this may be inevitable.
My initial contention was that, in developing auto ATC, Vatsim is playing to the easy game-oriented paradigm, making life easier and less knowledge-dependent for (temporarily) inadequate pilots, while waiting impatiently for a solution to be developed. My fear is that this knee-jerk response, eloquently executed as it may be (and with Ross involved, it will be) is just totally not what Vatsim is about.
I agree with you my friend. My home airport is in the ZLA airspace so I fly out of LAX and the surrounding fields all the time -IFR in airliners, VFR in props; constantly trying to test my skill- and the amount of trouble those controllers have been receiving lately from new pilots (again, kids mostly) makes me feel bad for them and you can hear the frustration in their voice. You can absolutely tell that it’s a young kid who discovered VATSIM and just signed on to the network whilst barely knowing how to fly an A320, not having charts, not knowing proper terminology, etc. The influx of new members you mentioned certainly shows in the last 6 months or so.
This is off-topic for this conversation, but I personally think that VATSIM should increase their age requirement from 13 to the IRL pilot licensing age minimum of 17. It really kills my immersion and makes me get frustrated when someone like myself sounds professional over the radio and makes things as easy as possible for the controller when, say, getting my clearance -we all know that clearances in the U.S. are quite long- and then you hear the high-pitched voice of a kid come over after me saying something that’s not even remotely close to what they should be saying and then the controller has to take their hand and guide them through the process. After that the controller sounds very irritated and it just makes for an overall depressing time. Granted, there are certainly many kids with that high-pitched voice that can rival even people as experienced as us, but I fear they are the minority, not the majority in their age group. If you have to be told what “Squawk Normal or Mode C” means, you should not be flying on the network yet.
Thanks for the endorsement!
It is unfortunately very difficult to legislate for maturity. One 14 yearold may be very much more mature than another 22 yearold. And the age of qualification for a PPL varies depending on the rules in place in that specific jurisdiction.
The only answer, as far as I can see, is the one which the BoG is currently working on: require that the new member knows a LOT more about flying and about Vatsim than is currently the case. That would include knowledge of squawk modes and a hundred other things.
The struggle which the BoG faces is in trying to get there, where we should be, without turning off potential new members (who will form the future of
Vatsim) due to the unexpectedly steep learning curve they must surely face. On the other hand, we can absolutely not shed a tear over each game-playing exitement-orientated adrenaline junkie we lose along the way.
It’s a tough call.
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I did 2 flights in the last 24 hours with an Auto ATC advisory and didn’t get a feedback link. Can somebody post it here?
What were your callsigns? I’d like to check the logs to see if the link was sent.
AutoATC.
My first reaction was the same as other people in this thread had… Are you serious… AI ATC like the dreaded MS-AI-ATC… I’m flying on vatsim for the excellent real-person ATC, and in lieu of that the wonders of UNICOM.
Why in the world would I want an AI-ATC-Advisor?
Then I slightly warmed up on the idea, but not to the extend of this trial…
I think we should’ve started with auto-sending information such as the CTAF frequency, the weather at the destination/departure airport and runway in use… Something like an AUTO_ATIS. When people (aka Pilots) got used to this, then add the AUTO_ATC as depicted in the trial.
As to the how would I like to see those messages… via CPDLC/ACARS
Auto-send the arrival and departure information as ACARS freetext. when the pilot logs into CDPLC send the AUTO_ATC via CPDLC.
I really do like the ACARS message from VNAS that tells me “Sorry not ATC, please use Squawk 1234” (Never found out whether that message pops up when entering uncontrolled into US Airspace). Not sure about the auto_atc yet…
my 2c
Ralph
it really should give ctaf frequencies. the fact that we are 6 months in and people are STILL not using the correct frequency (if at all) is maddening
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I think we are over reacting here while I enjoy the live real person ATC there is not harm in trying this auto AC (AI) for uncontrolled Air space. there are many flight that we claim to our VA that we flight on the network however there was not control and how many of us forgot before CTAF on the VATUSA and have almost cause a virtual crash. My hat is off to those ATC that day and night put up with all the crap we hear on coms and still stay and help us get there.
I am ok with this test and I hope it works out.
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I am new to Vatsim but been flying aircraft part 91 and 135 irl since 1993. I am an IFR pilot by choice on almost every flight. Listening to what they are trying to accomplish tells me I came to the right place for thoughtful and realistic as possible simulation. If there is any good use for AI in training, done in moderation, this is it. You can’t get enough immersion imho when it comes to communication in the air. The idea to un clutter uncontrolled airspace makes a lot of sense while they grow the ATC network to fill the expanding need. Looking forward to learning more as I start to use the system and seeing where this goes. Thanks for the effort.
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I think auto ATC is a good thing, especially at larger airports when ATC is offline to help pilots plan for arrivals etc to reduce the “surprises” when a controller does logon “what do you mean landing RWY9L I"M SETUP FOR 27L” I also think auto ATC could evolve into help manage flows for multiple users and reduce everyone doing somethign different and causing the chaos we currently have when no controller is online