I think it does, from the point of view of realism. IRL, pilots load the fmc while sitting at the gate. The FP is of course already with ATC but the SID is dynamic.
How long do you need to be connected for the preflight? How long would it take for you to enter a SID?
A good preflight for me when connecting cold and dark takes up to 45 minutes in an airliner for me, about the same time as progressive refueling followed by boarding does.
One reason to be connected is so you are not spawning into someone when you finally have finished the preflight because in many aircraft slewing around with everything setup will mess stuff up and also just so you can listen to the voice atis and everything.
In addition to what others have said: IRL you would often call for your enroute clearance quite early during your preflight in order to have enough time to figure out any changes to your flight plan, check if you are able to comply with what you’re cleared for, brief the cleared procedures, etc. On VATSIM, it also helps controllers with preplanning as they will get a better picture of who might call in during the next 20-30 minutes (this spontaneous connecting and immediately being ready for everything can be very stressful for controllers if they already have a good amount of work to do and can often result in a waiting time for the pilot as the controller has to check the flight plan first etc) and particularly in places using ACDM procedures, you can quickly face hefty delays if you are late to submit your TOBT while there’s already a lot of traffic.
For example, I usually connect as soon as I’m loaded in, start the aircraft, get my enroute clearance, and then complete my preflight, so I will often be connected without moving or talking for 30-ish minutes between getting my enroute clearance and requesting startup.
This is applicable to the US, primarily. In Europe you would not do that. You just call for your clearance, at the earliest 15 minutes before your filed flightplan departure time (in our VATSIM world the pre-filing form holds the information in the field titled “Off Block UTC (HHMM)”.
But: since this is a virtual world and we are here to learn, you can always call ATC in advance and ask for your “expected departure clearance”. You will still have to call for your definite clearance later on, when it is your time to begin the flight.
You are absolutely correct, but most people have no clue how to file correct EOBTs and they are not enforced in any way either, so no controller will pay attention to that. On top of that, in Europe there are way fewer flight plans that require a revision IRL than in other countries due to the validation process, but this process is non-existent for the VATSIM world (unless a pilot knows about it and goes through the work of validating their flight plan), so it’s more likely that ATC has some sort of revision to your flight plan on the network, even in Europe. Add to that most people have no real world aviation experience at all, so an unexpected change like that can become a pretty potent stressor - calling early makes everything much more relaxed.
In that regard I think
is over the top. You’re probably going to confuse controllers with that request and unless there’s a runway change, your clearance is so unlikely to change with the time anyway that I’d just request the clearance and in the rare case that something changes after the fact, ATC will call you up again.
That was not the point that I was trying to make My point was: IRL in Europe you can always enquire about your expected departure procedure >15 minutes before your planned ETD and ATC will only give you “expect”. In VATSIM, as you quite rightly wrote, ATCOs largely do not really pay attention or consider the filed ETD/EOBT and just issue your IFR clearance.
Most of it has already been said by the others. I don’t want to jump on a controller by just connecting and immediately asking for a clearance before he even had a chance to notice I was there, let alone look at my flight plan, verify it’s correct, and come up with a valid clearance.
On my side, I can get the latest ATIS, while also getting a feel for how busy the airport is and if I need to ask my clearance a bit earlier perhaps to be able to leave the gate at my filed EOBT. It’s also more immersive to do things with a bit of traffic moving around IMHO.
Because pilots don’t always file a realistic EOBT. Just logged in for a quick check at 1600Z, and as expected, there is one online with an EOBT of 0100Z and another with 1125Z (both came online around 1545Z)
In the time I wrote this post, two more came online, with incorrect EOBTs.
If all pilots filed proper EOBTs, it would actually make ATCo’s life a lot easier by being able to predict the departure flow, adjust taxi routes if planes are expected to leave a gate and block a taxiway soon, …
Oh, interesting that you actually consider ETDs/EOBTs. When I control I just handle the traffic “as it comes”, no planning.
I’m surprised this is even an issue being brought up. Network operations determines my flight departure time (often months in advance). A dispatcher files my flight plan for me, and the company’s ATC liaison will work with ATC if there needs to be a delay (such as for an EDCT).
I simply have a countdown timer on my iPad until D-0, and a gate agent breathing down my neck for when I have to drop the parking brake and hit Ctrl-E. ATC doesn’t care if I push on time or not.
Like you, back when I controlled, I didn’t care when your ETD was. You call, I work.
You make a good point. As pilots, our hands are tied when it comes to scheduling. I understand where you’re coming from; expecting Vatsim controllers to strictly adhere to EOBTs would be unrealistic too. In the end, let’s prioritize everyone’s safe arrival at their destinations.
I’m sure most VATSIM controllers wouldn’t delay pilots unnecessarily if they’re ready earlier or later than their filed EOBT, so yes, controlling happens mostly on a first-come-first-served basis, but I don’t think anyone can argue against aiming for 1) filing more realistic EOBTs, and 2) better adherence to those EOBTs within a reasonable margin (say, ± 10 min)?
Even with the relatively wide 20 minute margin, at least there will be a better indication of when roughly to expect an aircraft to leave the stand, rather than have the current situation where an aircraft can come online at 1100Z with a filed EOBT at 1200Z, and ATC has no idea if the pilot will call for clearance and/or pushback at 1101Z, or at 1130Z, or at 1200Z, or at 2000Z, or …
(Way) Further down the line, proper EOBTs could also be a first step towards a CFMU towards sectors and airports, where they’ll be able to more reliably predict traffic and workload, and send out flow management regulations or get extra controllers ahead of time, instead of the current - outside events mostly reactive - ECFMP requests.
Yes, because the last thing I want is to get the pre-flight done and boarding underway only to find that somebody else was in the spot I was parked at during the time all this was taking place. Now I would have to interrupt the boarding process, move to a different spot, and start the entire boarding sequence all over again, which could potentially delay my departure.
I guess the reason I don’t understand all of you needing lots of time connected on the ground is because I use the simulation to fly. Not act like a airline crew of 1. I board “instant” when its a option (fenix) or simply load the aircraft using ZFW. I dont want to sit while passengers simulate loading along with fuel and cargo. I dont have that extra time to waste.
This brings up a question I’ve always had. What is the difference between observer mode and just being parked at a gate?
in observer mode atc and other players wont see you
(actually atc can in some lists see observers but that is almost always disabled, but handy if someone calls and you dont see them, somethimes you see them in that list and can tell them that they are in observer mode)
Apart from the fact that you are not taking up a parking position and that it allows you to appear as a single aircraft when flying shared cockpit, it has been said earlier in this thread that OBS connections don’t send any data to the network - they only receive data, thus using less bandwidth than a normal connection.
The boarding is happening as I’m doing the pre-flight, so that time is being used regardless.
OK. I’ll send money when I can. Thanks for the reminder.
What does “progress ranks” mean? I’ve belonged to at least 2 virtual airlines, been on the VATSIM thing for at least 8 years, and I’m still listed as new pilot. What’s yer proverbial point, as it were?